Bob Brown's 4 valve Pantah heads

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There's a thread going on the 750F1 and TT forum with some great photos and period article on the 4 valve heads Bob Brown had made for the Pantah motor circa 1985.  I've never seen Bob looking so young.

I saw these heads quite a few years ago when Bob had them on display at the FOIM at the Museum.

http://www.ducatittandf1.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10460
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Adjustable cam pullies for Ducati

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I received some adjustable cam pullies today from MADASL in the UK.  I had sent Mark all the original pullies I could find that came from the days when we fitted the Vee Two adjustable pullies.  Mark modifies them to make them adjustable, which suits my love of recycling just fine.

I have 16 in total, 2 round tooth aluminium (originally 916/996SPS), 10 round tooth steel and 4 square tooth steel (pre 98 400, 500, 600, 650 and 750).

The thing I really like about them is that, unlike the Vee Two pullies, you can drill holes through them to fix settings.  I did this to a pair of Vee Two ones years ago for the 750 motor in Minnie, but because they have lightening holes in the back section, drilling them usually leads into air.  I drilled a lot of holes to get two that were usable.  These MADASL pullies have a solid section between the slots on the toothed section and the centre piece is solid.  So you can fix a setting, drill a hole, then fix another setting and drill again.  Up to 4 times.  Woo hoo.  Well, if you want to play with timing on the dyno, track or anywhere else anyway.

Prices per pair, including GST and postage Australia wide: round tooth aluminium $200, round tooth steel $170, square tooth steel $170.
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Acewell dash mount plate for Ducati Monster

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I recently fitted an Acewell ACE-3963 dash to a 2005 M400ie, and as part of the install had some mounting plates cut.  I got 10 for my minimum design and set up charge, so have 9 left to try to recoup a little of the money the job cost me.  I'll detail the drama later.

They're laser cut from stainless steel plate, with hole spacing to suit both early and late Monsters.  The early carb models will need the holes enlarged, currently they're 5mm to suit the ie model mountings.  $40 each as is.  I really don't want to invest any more time in them, so they're flat and raw.  As fitted, the last one was bent and polished.

 

 

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888SP4 vs 748/853 Dyno chart

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Today I ran an 888SP4 on the dyno, the first of the old school hotties I've run on the new Dynobike dyno.  The runs I had on the old dyno, compared to my 888, showed that the SP motors (pre SP5 anyway) really weren't anything flash power wise.  So I compared today's bike with the 853 kitted 748's I've done recently.  They've been 748 with 853 kits, modified combustion chambers and std ports.  Pretty basic.  Blue is 888SP4 with 98/102 cam timing and an eprom sort of to suit ("in progress" runs) and red is 748/853 with 111/108 cam timing and eprom to suit. 

 

There is the possibility that the 748's more powerful 1.6M ecu (with offset mapping for cylinder 2) allows it a little more power compared to the P7 running the 888 which only has one map for both cylinders.  Plus the 748/853 will have more compression.  And slightly smaller ports, which seem to work nicely at this capacity.

The 748/853 is certainly a nicer engine to ride, but 36 degrees less cam duration will do that.
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750 Dry clutch photo

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A photo for a Monster forum question.  750 dry clutch, used on the 750 motor from 1985 750F1 to 1992 750SS and the 1988 851 Tricolore, early 906 Paso and 1990 900SS.

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More on inlet trumpets

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A bit heavier going (haven't read it myself yet), but some more serious theory on inlet trumpet design

Ok, so now I've read it.  It's very interesting, for both its content and, in a somewhat typical way, as to how much change there sometimes isn't when you move from a functional, but simple solution to a more complicated solution.  ie, plain pipe to simple radius and then elliptical form.  Certainly, the reality of manufacturing an accurate elliptical form as opposed to a rolled edge contrasts strongly against the minimal improvement it offers.  And, of course, when you're playing for sheep stations, not having that 1.5% is getting your arse kicked.

Space is also a consideration when you have trumpets close together.  ie, Aprilia 990 motors, where oversized inlet trumpets need to be squared where they meet.  Although I have been told that fiting large entry, "elliptical style" profile trumpets makes a noticeable difference to engine output.

Looking at the profiles again in figure 5 and remembering what I was pulling apart yesterday, simple radius is 851/888 and aerofoil/elliptical is 916, etc.  So I guess Ducati figured there was something in it.

And if you bought trumpets from someone like TPO or WASP or Ducshop you'd find they're large entry, probably elliptical and definitely short and fat.

As a side note, Professor Gordon Blair is a real two stroke expert, and has spent many years at Queens' University in Belfast.  He has done lots and lots of very cool stuff over the years. 
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Varying intake trumpet length and effects thereof.

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The following page was linked into a thread on the Supersport page of Ducati MS and it's just too good to not try to bring more attention to.  Some may see that it's car based and turn off, but that's irrelevant.  It's great general info, and the kind that hopefully will convince some reading it to apply and expand on.  Or just to think outside the box that most others live in.  Hopefully you'll find it as interesting as I did.  The part throttle info is particularly useful too.

Many thanks to Dave @ EmeraldM3D for the effort and posting the results.

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/articles/cat/projects/post/emr-adj-length-intake/
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Phil Aynsley's photos from the Island Classic

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http://www.philaphoto.com/imageLibrary/thumbnails.php?album=1428
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The Island Classic and Ago

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I went down to the Island Classic for the Saturday to fiddle as required with the MV Agusta Julian McLean had built by Albert Bold, which was doing demo laps ridden by Ago.

Julian is the man from Tahbilk Winery who has been a driving force behind the MV Agusta presence at any motorcycle related function in Victoria for the last 12 or so years.  An passionate enthusiast of the type small volume importer's dream about, he also puts his money where his mouth is.  Hence the bike built by Albert.  It's a Magni frame with a 600 engine taken out to 887cc, dry clutch and chain drive conversions and original MV race team plasma sprayed aluminium front discs.  Albert is a very high end machinist, and the titanium throttle linkages, for example, are just a work of art.  The bike was featured in the December issue of Motorcycle Trader (Au).  100hp with the megaphones and 155kg.  It's a pretty impressive piece of old kit just in itself.  Here's a link to Albert's previous MV race bike

Ago turned up in a Fiat 500 with a local lady named Rosa and from the moment he arrived was swamped.  He did a couple of sessions both days and the bike went well enough that only a gear lever adjustment was required.

So, to some photos and video.

Julian firing it for the first time on Saturday morning I believe.  Rosa in the background and me being the only one smart enough to put their fingers in their ears.  Of course, Julian has earplugs.  It is godawfully loud.  Albert made a 4-1 exhaust for it as well, which made an extra 15hp.  Just not old school cool.

 

 

I like this photo.  Ago in ungracious pose fiddling with boot, me watching on for no apparant reason, photographer extraordinaire Phil Aynsley with the big camera and high vis, Tony Hannagan from Beveltech (Phil's pack horse for the weekend) with little camera and high vis, unknown paramedic.  Note to self, pack high vis for next time.

 

 

 

Julian warming it up for Ago, smile hiding the paranoia of hoping like hell nothing goes wrong. 

 

 

 

 

A very short video of Ago down the front straight.  First movie with my iPhone, didn't work out quite as planned (kept pressing in the wrong spot).  You get the sound though.  Strangely, not as loud as it goes past as I expected.

 

 

 

 

There's a much better (longer) video on the AMCN facebook page, I just can't get it to link.

 

AMCN

 

A Panigale on the dyno

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I had a Panigale in on Friday morning to reflash the ecu using the Rexxer tool with a map to suit the QD exhaust system fitted.  A race bike from Adelaide on its way to Phillip Island, the reflash was to help fix an overly lean issue when running the QD system with the Termi kit ecu, and included turning most things off - lambda sensors, side stand switch, thermo fans, etc.

On the dyno in Adelaide the QD system had given an extra 20 or so hp through the midrange compared to the Termi kit, so it's a very effective piece of gear.  The look may upset some, but that's a personal thing and it has been designed to work first I assume.  For those accustomed to recent Termi systems it's shockingly small at 52mm od.  Oh the horror.  How can it possibly make any power with only a 52mm exhaust.

It went from me down to Dynobike for a run to check the mixture.  The curve is smoother than other Panigale dyno runs I have seen, much less top end orientated due to the removal of the midrange hole that seems to have plagued Ducati superbikes since the 999 full systems came along. 

Dyno chart
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Google warning "This site may harm your computer."

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Best I let my webmaster explain this:

"All my sites were hacked on new years eve. It took two days of running battle to find the cause and permanently remove it.

The hack consisted of inserting links to malware hosted on a Russian website into hidden frames on each web page.

It will take some time for the Google warning to be removed (up to a week).

Bob Brown's race 851

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A member of the 851 Yahoo list Posted a link to Bob Brown's 851 race bike that is currently for sale on Bikepoint: 851 Racer.  I've seen the bike in person and think it's pretty cool, so I thought I'd put a little bit up on it.

Originally an 851 kit, it had lots of mods over the four or so seasons it was raced (88 - 91).  Bob had cylinders made up to allow it to go to nearly 100mm bore for a full 1000cc, and the frame had extra bars welded onto each side of the vertical cylinder that Bob says made a big difference to crankcase life.  It cracked a few sets early on, as did all the 851 that were raced.  Roche used 36 engines in 1990: Bob witnessed the last one letting go rather impressively coming on to the main straight in the last race of the season at Manfield, after he'd won the title in the first race of the day.  From memory the 916 wasn't any better, I'm sure Corser and Fogarty used a similar number of engines in the mid 90's.

Duane Mitchell, who worked with Bob in the era, told me years ago it was very quick, and went past the factory bikes with ease in a straight line.  Until it just shut down, which it apparantly did with monotonous regularity.  So they pulled the Weber injection and Bob had some manifolds cast to fit a pair of FCR39 to each cylinder and a custom alternator cover to allow a Krober ignition to be fitted to it.  Which made it much more reliable.

It's obvious how much time and money went into it, with lots of very cool period race bits like radial master cylinders, etc.  And lots of custom/one off work as well.  Clearly a money pit, and very cool.

He also has his new in glass case 851 Tricolore Kit listed too: 851 Tricolore Kit

And also this TT2, which was displayed a few (several) years ago at the FOIM at the Museum.  It's just gorgeous: TT2 
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Keihin FCR main air jet test: post 2

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I was going to put more info in the other night, but it was late and I had work to do.

The graph below shows three different bikes all running the same 152 mains (just can't get rid of them) and how the curves taper (or don't).  Blue is M750 with FCR39, Red 900SS with FCR41 and green 900SS with FCR39.  The green curve is by far the most consistant.

It also seems that the richer my M750 gets, the less consistant the WOT mixture becomes.  In particular, the more prominent the (comparatively) lean peak at 7,200 becomes.  Blue is 152 mains, red is 158 mains and green is 165 mains.  Also, the three step richer change from 158 to 165 has a much bigger impact on mixture than the two step 152 to 158 change.  I have done a few FCR main jet changes that have struck me as having less effect than I anticipated.
 

Although, the Mikuni 600 and later 900 carbs I had previously been running on Minnie could also show a lean peak at similar rpm depending on inlet and exhaust configuration.

I also ran some part throttle checks.  Initially when I fitted the FCR I tried 52 pilots, then went down to 48 after the first ride and down to 45 before the last dyno runs to try to cure the 1/8 or so throttle richness.  It's possibly still a little on the rich side.  I have left the idle mixture (slow fuel) and slow air screws at their spec settings, just because they seem to be a bit more stable that way in my limited experience.  And some playing with them didn't seem to help.

The next graph shows 1/4 throttle, which has remained surprisingly stable.  I say that because both pilot and main jets have been changed, and I'm told that the main does have an impact on part throttle.  So I'm not sure if the return to smaller mains will have an impact on the 1/4 throttle mixture.  Hopefully not.  Blue is 52, red 45.

1/2 throttle shows a richer mixture with the larger mains, blue 158, red 165.

Similarly, 3/4 throttle also shows a richer mixture with the larger mains, blue 158, red 165.  The sudden step at 4,000 rpm is a bit wacky too.

Given Minnie is now unregistered, I won't get to try out any more changes.  But I think I'll set the FCR up with 160 mains instead of the 158 and leave all else as was.  Hopefully the jetting will work ok in an SS, as that's where the engine is theorectically going.

She was running very nicely, although the 1/2 throttle wheelies when taking off from the lights were getting a little too easy and frequent.  Started well too with the "two pumps, wind in idle speed screw, press button" procedure.
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Keihin FCR main air jet test

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Today was Minnies last day of rego, and at this point of time I'm not planning to re-register her for the minimal use that she gets.  But I had one test I wanted to try with the FCR, and that was larger main air jets.

The idea is that the main air jet sizing wil influence the shape of the fuel curve.  Read Patick Burn's tuning guide for a much better explanation.  I have found that with the FCR on Ducati engines you often get a mixture that tapers rich as rpm climbs. Specifcally it seems to be with larger carb size to engine capacity ratios.  Or, more simply, 41 on a 900 as compared to 39 on a 900, or 39 on a 750 compared to 39 on a 900.  Comparitively, the 900SS I fitted FCR39 to gave a relatively flat curve.

The FCR for Ducatis come with a 200 main air jet, the largest Keihin make.  So the assumption was I could get some 200 and drill them out.  As you do.  With my jet drill kit the 200 was between 1.90 and 2.00mm, and I drilled them to 2.10mm.  I also went up to 165 main jets from the 158 that I had fitted previously on the assumption that I'd need more fuel.  Turns out, perhaps, that the reason the biggest main air jet available is 200 is because that's as big as the carb will respond to.  That's the theory I'm running with at this point, based on tody's runs.

If I told you the graph below was for 158 mains in red and 165 in blue you'd probably believe me.  I would.  Same shape, just richer.  So, no joy in main air jet land, but at least now I know.  And that has to be worth the effort.

 

 

Now I have to put the 158 mains back in, and probably some undrilled 200 main air jets, just to be sure.

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Charging system diagnosis procedure

I replied to a forum post somewhere regarding how I diagnose charging system faults, and I thought I'd best copy it to a word document so I could simply copy and paste if I needed it again.  Then I edited the mistakes out and figured I might as well just post it here.  I hope it helps de-mystify the process for some.  I'm not overly electrically minded, but as with most diagnosis it's simply fault finding by process.  I find that I only ever get into trouble if I rush and forget the procedure.

There's now (May 2023) a video on my Youtube channel too - Charging system diagnosis

And another that's 3 phase specific - 3 Phase charging system diagnosis

 

Following are the checks I do.

Visual:

Check regulator - the single phase Ducati (2 yellow wires) often leak black goo or have large holes in the back of them.  3 phase Shendengan generally don't.

Check yellow wires from alternator for melting and connector burning.  The 3 pin white terminal will melt if used as a two pin connector on a single phase system as per the upgrade kits.  Almost guarantee it.  Moto Guzzi Breva 750 among other models also use this white connector with a Ducati Electronica single phase system, and I have seen them burn similarly.

The yellow wires often get green corrosion on them under the insulation, which has usually turned whitish and brittle.  I tend to cut it back until it's nice and new looking if possible, but it's not really necessary ime.
 

Check other wires out of regulator to battery.

Check the maxi fuse:

Pull it out, make sure it's not cracked, give it a clean and lube.

Battery: 

Charge with a real charger (not a trickle charger) and load test once charged.  If it won't hold load, replace it.  You need a fully charged battery to diagnose the system.

In my experience, Lithium batteries tend to not be good for this sort of diagnosis - they don't respond to sudden changes in voltage input, or maybe they suck it all up - I don't know.  But certainly, they won't show a change in output like a lead acid of the various types will.

Multimeter:

Check for continuity between the two or three alternator wires.  Should have some with very low resistance.  For clarity lets say 0 ohms.

Check for continuity between alternator wires and ground.  Should be none.

Check for continuity between the regulator output positive (red) wire and the battery positive terminal.  This will also show up a blown maxi fuse.

Check for continuity between the regulator output negative (black or green) wires and the battery negative terminal on the 3 phase systems, or between the regulator body/earth wire and the battery negative terminal on a single phase system.

Check alternator AC output between yellow wires.  This test is carried out with the yellow wires from alternator to regulator disconnected.  Hook the multimeter leads into the two (or two of the three) yellow leads from the alternator with meter set to AC and read the voltage.  It should get to 70Vac fairly quickly.  On a 3 phase system check between all combinations of two yellows.  Realistically, this is a potential voltage, not a real voltage.  Do the dc test below to see if it is actually capable of making voltage.

Fit a dc rectifier between the yellows and battery.  This directly charges the battery, and will show you whether or not the alternator can produce under load, which the ac test doesn't.  Battery voltage should climb over 15v at quite low rpm.  Don’t hold it above 15v for too long, but certainly make sure it can get there.  I usually raise the rpm until I see 16 or 17, and then shut it off straight away.

If everything so far has passed, replace the regulator.

Other info

I always use round bullet terminals for the yellow alternator to regulator connection in the same size as the originals on the Ducati single phase systems.  They’re very reliable if kept clean and lubed.  Do not use flat spade terminals for the yellow alternator to regulator connection on a single phase system.  Even when not in a connector, I’ve never seen them last.  Always cover the alternator to regulator terminals with heat shrink too.  Pretty much lube every terminal and connector, and heat shrink all bullet or individual terminal connections.

Some people like to solder the yellow alternator to regulator wires together instead of using connectors.  I don’t, as it’s something you can’t undo and reconnect easily without the correct tools if you have to.  The round bullet terminals are so reliable I see no point.

Once you've replaced the regulator, check the voltage at the battery with the engine running.  You should get 14.3 or so v.

If not, (I always do this check anyway) check the voltage drop between the regulator output positive (red) wire and the battery positive.  This will show you how much voltage drop there is in the wiring loom (including the maxi fuse).  It’s common to see 0.5V and sometimes more here.

Do the same check for the regulator output negative (black or green) wires and the battery negative terminal on the 3 phase systems, or between the regulator body/earth wire and the battery negative terminal on a single phase system.  This is usually much lower, but again definitely worth checking.

I often run a jump wire on a single phase system from regulator body to the battery negative terminal and check the battery voltage with the jump on and off.  This will tell you if the earth at the regulator body is bad.

If you get voltage drops I run extra wires from the regulator to the battery.  Given I always replace single phase regulators with the 3 phase Shendengan SH579 that is fitted to the 3 phase bikes as std (just cut one of the yellows at the regulator short under the sheath and leave unconnected) you don’t need to earth the regulator body.  But if there is a wire there you might as well fit it to a mounting screw.  Saves people seeing a wire dangling and thinking something is wrong.  Just run extra earth wires from the regulator 4 pin connector (2 greens are earth) back to the battery.  I usually go to the frame ground point as well if it’s on the way, such as on a pre 2002 Monster.  Just make sure you scrape the frame paint off and grease the terminals and frame.

For the positive wires I run from the 2 red wires on the regulator 4 pin connector back to the maxi fuse (using new terminals) and from the maxi fuse to the battery.  People who know more than me about this stuff say there’s no need to include a fuse in this circuit, but I like to keep it if I can (i.e., have the right terminals)

This way you end up with one more terminal per post at the battery, but sometimes you pick up more voltage than you’d expect.  With a good regulator, a good battery and fresh wiring I always see 14.2 – 14.3V at the battery.

I leave the old maxi fuse terminals connected, just cover them with heat shrink and zip tie out of the way.  Same with positive (red) and two wire flat connectors that went to the old single phase regulator.  That way the loom is still original as some people like them to remain that way.

Note: With the SH579 you lose the battery light on the dash.  This upsets some people.

If you use an original style or Electrex or other single phase regulator that uses a reference voltage input (the two wire flat connector has one wire to run the light, the other is a reference) then you need to make sure the reference is accurate.  This reference is switched through the ignition switch and runs through the loom.  If the reference is low, due to the resistance that naturally builds up in an old loom, the regulator will think the battery voltage is lower than it actually is and it will overcharge the battery.  I think it’s the white/red wire (or maybe pink?).

You can either check the voltage in this wire or (better) run a jump wire from the battery positive to the connector.  I pull the connector apart enough that it’s still connected, but you can touch the terminal.  Then, with the engine running and while checking the battery voltage, touch the jump wire to the terminal.  If the battery voltage drops instantly (and it will if it’s overcharging) the easiest fix is to cut the reference wire on the loom side of the two wire flat connector, fit a relay running battery power direct to this wire into the regulator and switch the relay on with the loom side of the reference wire coming from the ignition switch.  906 Paso have done this for years, and I’ve seen a few Monsters and SS do it. 

The SH579 3 phase regulator doesn’t use a reference, so fitting one does away with this potential issue.

I've not used a FH series Shendengan mosfet style reg yet, but only because I haven't actually got to order any.  I keep meaning too.  The Multi 1200 uses a mosfet reg.

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Ducati ie models and voltage drop to coils and injectors

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I had an M800 in last week to check for poor idling which turned out to be closing clearance related.  Well, I expect anyway, the owner was going to play with it.

But one of the things I checked was voltage at the coils.  The horizontal coil is easy to get to, just under the back of the airbox.  With the battery at 13V or so, the coil had 11.5.  Jumping battery voltage direct to the coil (and therefore into the rest of the little loom that is downstream of the injection relay: coils and injectors mainly) didn't help the idle quality, but richened the mixture from 2.5 to 4.5% CO without any other change.

I have had another M400ie with a similar voltage drop issue, but i don't recall checking the idle mixture at the same time as playing with voltage.  It had an ongoing misfire issue (on the horizontal from memory) that I never got to resolve to my or the owner's satisfaction before he got sick of me and went elsewhere.  But I'm quite convinced it was related to voltage drop in this area.
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Ducati 900: W heads vs V heads

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I had a fellow named Wilco send me some dyno runs for his Cagiva Gran Canyon (fuel injected 900 motor) before and after a cylinder head replacement.  Originally fitted with the same style heads as the later 90's M900 (W stamp) fitted with the 750 sized valves and 750 OR/VR cams, he had replaced them with some V stamp heads from a carburettor model 900SS running the OHT/VHT cams.  The OHT/VHT grind is little smaller than the 900SSie cams that I fitted to a Gran Canyon with std heads some years ago.  See http://www.bikeboy.org/grancanyon.html for more info.

As you can see, the bigger valves really help wake it up.  It's the result I was hoping to see with the cams alone.  Obviously the valves are more important.  For a carby model M900 with the long manifolds the top end increase might not be so great, but even if it peaked at 7,000 rpm it is still a large increase.

Thanks to Wilco for supplying the info.

 

There's some more info in this youtube clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec2CM4DnyDM&feature=g-upl

 

 

Festival Of Italian Motorcycles 2012

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http://www.cimaa.asn.au/?p=1320

This years FOIM is on Sunday November 18 at a new location.  Actually an old location, the Argyle Gardens on Lygon St, Carlton.  I attended the FOIM there a couple of times in the mid 90's, one year riding Trev's Guzzi V7 Special (actually an 850GT masquarading as a V7 from memory, before I had finished my own).

It's a great location, right in the middle of Lygon Street.

I'll be there under my little fold out pergola talking for 4 or so hours and seeing not much apart from the passing faces.
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New Bike!

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Well, I say it like I'm all excited.  I've actually had it for two weeks and haven't really done anything to it, apart from wonder why I thought it was a good idea.

I have spent some time on Ebay buying bits though.  Maybe that's where the enthusiasm has gone.  Sucked away like the money from my Paypal account buying another fuel tank to replace the prevously repaired and still weeping original one that has an interior full of nasty.  And a standard muffler.  When, oh when are people going to realise that standard parts are worth keeping.

Realistically, had the fuel tank repair and condition been listed in the Ebay ad I'd probably have steered clear in the first place.  As ever, there's always a reason why things are cheap.  At least the frame's not cracked.

Which reminds me, I haven't said what it is yet.  An SS.  All 400 badass, ball tearing cc of it.  A 1993 model, it's actually one of a few genuine Australian import SS Juniors.  With 85,000km on the clock it's done its share of work, but hopefully it'll stand up to some riding, and no doubt some dyno runs.

1993 means gold frame and black wheels (unless it's a 900SL or 888SP5, of which it is definitely neither).  I dislike black wheels with some passion, especially on 1993 model Ducatis.  The 1994 bikes with the gold wheels just look so much better to me.

Unfortunately, 1993 also means 17mm front axle.  I was thinking I could just pull the wheels and slot them into Minne, who as a 1997 model has gold wheels.  But as a 1997 model she also has a 20mm front axle, and the two are completely incompatible.  And swapping the speedo drive with the front wheel won't help either (forks are the same axle hole wise) as the SS and Monster speedos require different drive ratios.

As to intent, well, permission for the purchase was provided on the notion that I could turn it over and make some money.  Which, if history is any guide, is something I am simply not capable of when it comes to motorcycles.  My thoughts have turned to maybe selling Minnie instead, although to do that and have it be worthwhile Minnie needs to be LAMS again, which means fitting a 600cc engine.

Or an engine inside some 600 cases, using the 750 crank currently inside the engine in her, 620 pistons, 750 heads machined to fit, etc.  As if i have time to do that.  And it's not exactly in the spirit of the LAMS law either.

Of course that leaves the left overs and other parts on hand to make an 827cc small block.

A photo of it about to come off the trailer.  Only one I've taken so far.  So my first 'new' bike in 8 or more years isn't really filling me with enthusiasm it seems.

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Throttle Position Sensor setting procedure for Moto Guzzi California and Bellagio

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I had an email asking about Cali TPS set up, and I'd had this report almost ready to go for some time, so thought I'd pop it up here for a quick view.  It will go into the reports at some point of time as that way it's easier to find.

The throttle bodies fitted to the California and Bellagio are unique to these two models.  They are 40mm bore and have a link from a central cable wheel out to each throttle blade.  So the procedure has a couple of variations from the other Guzzi models.  Generally the throttle bodies on other models have a cable wheel on one throttle, then a link from that to the other in a master/slave style relationship.  With the Cali and Bellagio throttle bodies it’s more two slaves (call it a co-op for the socialists among us) so the idle balance is not influenced by the running balance at all.

The throttle body set up procedure is the same for both the early P8 ecu and later 1.5M ecu bikes.  The photos relate to the later 1.5M ecu bikes with the small round TPS.  P8 ecu bikes generally have the large square TPS, but the concept and procedure are the same.

 

The photos below have red numbers to denote components and then yellow numbers and arrows to denote them being used later.  Each number is only used once.

 

All instructions are based on the premise that you have the equipment required up to and including the diagnostic tools and gas analyser.  You may not, and this will influence how far you can go.  Ideally you will go all the way.  It’s always nicer.

 

1/ Remove the crappy plastic throttle body covers.  They can have little cap screws or 5.5mm (from memory) hex screws as circled in yellow.

 

 

2/ The TPS is mounted under the LH throttle body.  The photo below shows the air bleed (1) and TPS (2).  The TPS screws are 7mm hex on earlier bikes or Torx20 on the later ones.  Getting all the yellow sealing paint out to allow the torx fitting to seat correctly can be a pain.

 

 

 

3/ On top of the LH throttle body is the blade arm pivot point for the black plastic arm coming from the central cable wheel (3) and the throttle balance adjuster screw (4).

 

 

 

4/ The throttle stop screw for the LH throttle body (9) is at the rear, as shown below.

 

 

 

5/ The RH throttle body is much the same, just mirrored.  Throttle blade arm pivot point for the black plastic arm coming from the central cable wheel (6), throttle stop screw at the rear (5), air bleed underneath (8).

 

5/ The screw at the central cable wheel is the fast idle adjustment.  It has nothing to do with throttle balance.  Although, given the little lever at the clutch side of the bars generally won’t stay where you put it, it often has very little to do with the fast idle speed either.

 

 

6/ Back probe the TPS connector to take the voltage across the two outer wires.  You need to turn the ignition on to power the circuit.  In its original position, you should see 400 – 500mV and up to 4.85V at full throttle.  I note the setting just for the sake of knowing.  If you don’t get the required voltage from the two outer wires you may need to try other combinations, but I believe that is correct.

 

 

7/ To baseline the TPS, disconnect the black plastic arm coming from the central cable wheel (3) by removing the little C clip.  Be careful, as these little clips are incredibly good at pissing off on you.  And spending half an hour crawling around the floor to find a 20c part is incredibly annoying.  Then wind out the throttle stop screw (9) until the throttle blade can fully close.  I tend to snap it shut to make sure it can fully shut, but then open and close it more gently to not get a false reading.  Gently closed with a little force is the best way to get a good base setting.  Generally you’d expect to see anywhere from 100 to 180mV.  Again, I note the setting just for the sake of knowing.

 

 

8/ Loosen the two TPS screws and move the TPS as required to give 150mV.  I always check the voltage again once the screws are tight, as things tend to move around enough to often frustrate you.

 

 

 

9/ Once you have 150mV with the throttle fully closed, wind the throttle stop screw (9) in again until you get the desired voltage for idle.  The manuals give the reading in degrees of throttle opening, which you read via the diagnostic software.  The spec is 3.2 to 3.6 degrees.  Nominally, this corresponds to 486 to 528mV.  The relationship is mV = (degrees x 105) + 150.  Although, the ecu doesn’t always read this the same.  No idea why.  You might set the throttle stop screw to, say, 486mV, but via the diagnostics you’ll get 2.9 degrees instead of 3.2.  Or 3.5.  Just the way it is.  I usually go by degrees, not mV.

 

In the past I have found variation between bikes from some needing the stop set to 3.2 degrees or they’ll idle too high to some set to 3.6 degrees and air bleeds wound out to bring the idle up.

 

From here in, the LH stop screw is not touched again.  Unless you have a too high idle condition after step 13 or 16.  Then you have to adjust as required to make it work, unfortunately.

 

 

10/ Reconnect the black plastic arm coming from the central cable wheel (3) and refit the c clip (just as easy to lose now as it was when removing).  Check to make sure the throttle hasn’t been opened at all by this.  The voltage out of the TPS will tell you if it has.  If the TPS voltage does change you need to add slack to the opening throttle cable or back off the fast idle adjusting screw (7) as required.

11/ Hook up the balance equipment to each manifold and wind the air bleeds (1) and (8) fully in.  I note how far out they were just for the sake of knowing.

 

 

12/ Remove the plugs in the headers and fit tubes to sample the idle mixture.  Didn’t take a photo of them, sorry.  Generally a 15mm hex head.

 

13/ Start and run the engine until warm.  It should idle to some extent with both air bleeds fully in (chuga chuga chuga).  Because the idle balance is not influenced by the running balance at all, you adjust the idle balance by the RH throttle stop screw (5) so that you have equal vacuum on both cylinders.

 

 

14/ Now you adjust the running balance.  This is a compromise based on how much variation you get in cylinder to cylinder vacuum as you open the throttle and increase the rpm above idle.  Also remember that you might get to 8 or so degrees opening at most when free revving it in neutral up to 6,000rpm or so, whereas on the road you’ll often be above that just cruising.  So you’re not getting a full “through the range” indication – there’s no way you’ll get to even quarter throttle on a free rev.  I just look at the variation in vacuum between the cylinders and adjust the balance screw (4) as required to give a best overall compromise.  If this adjustment changes the idle speed then you need to add slack to the opening throttle cable or back off the fast idle adjusting screw (7) as required.

 

 

15/ Next step is to set the idle speed.  Hopefully it’s not too high, so you wind out the air bleeds (1) and (8) as required to get the speed you want.  At this point open them to maintain equal vacuum on each cylinder.  There tends to be a strong temptation amongst many owners to idle them low, but ideally you want 1100rpm.  Don’t believe the tacho either, they tend to be wrong in either direction.

 

 

16/ Last step is to set the idle mixture.  On the P8 bikes this is done via the trimmer on the ecu.

 The idle trimmer on them is the screw in a hole next to the large wiring loom connector often covered by a plastic cap. To access the trimmer you just dig the cap out.  See the photo below.

 

Of course, on the Cali with the P8, the trimmer is up under the pillion seat and although you can work the ecu down and out without pulling the pillion seat, it‘s as much of a pain in the arse as you’d expect.

 

 

The idle trimmer operates over a range of 4 turns, but it’s possible to turn past the end point in either direction endlessly without changing the trim pot output voltage. Duane Mitchell at Ultimap says you can set the trim pot to the default “central” position by turning the trim pot 5 turns clockwise and listening for a little click (it’s rather little). Then turn back 2 turns counter clockwise and this is the central position. You now have 2 turns in either direction for adjustment. I’m sure I’ve done it on my own bikes this way. Alternatively, you can remove the lid of the ECU (the top as it is fitted to the bike, mounting tabs to the bottom) and using a multimeter set the trimmer by its output voltage. See the diagram below for the location of the terminals to take the voltage from. This is the most accurate way to get the default “central” setting for those who like that sort of thing.

 

 

Just remember that you have 2 turns of adjustment in either direction – it may help to write down what you’ve done.

 

On the 1.5M ecu Cali (mounted behind the LH side cover) and the Bellagio with the 5.9M/5AM the trimmer is an electronic setting via the diagnostic tools.  Although, from 2003 onwards the Cali are closed loop, as is the Bellagio and generally there’s no idle mixture adjustment on these bikes.  The lambda sensor does that within its narrow band of adjustment.

 

Usually I aim for 4.5% CO idle mixture.  Given there is only one idle trimmer for both cylinders, I check the mixture and then adjust the trimmer to get the average between both cylinders where I want it. Then I adjust the air bleeds to give the same mixture in both headers. This means that the manifold vacuum balance or synchronisation at idle will often not be equal. That’s just how it is.  Equal mixture CO% is more important in my experience.

 

I do recall a P8 ecu Cali that would backfire if the mixture was leaner than 7%, so it is sometimes a compromise between theory and the practicality of best running or fuel economy, etc.  The above procedure assumes that at the end point the set up is as intended and the mapping is good and all will be well.  If the mapping is crap then it’s a bit of a crap shoot.

 

And if the idle is too high at this point with the air bleeds both wound fully in then you’re back to step 9 and 13, winding the throttle stop screws out as required to give the idle you need.

Speedymoto Tallboys clip ons for early Monsters

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I fitted some Speedymoto Tallboys clip ons as part of a crash repair to a 1997 Ducati Monster 600.  One of the issues with the pre 2002 Monsters and clip ons are the top triple clamp screws which sit at the outer front edge of the triple, exactly where most clip ons rise to the bar clamp. The 2002 on models have a rounded edge and the clamp screws is moved to the front and inside of the fork leg.  So for the pre 2002 you either have very low bars or lift the forks up so you can put the clip ons above the top triple.  Which makes the front even lower and reduces the rake.  Or replace the top triple, which starts to get (even more) expensive.

The Tallboys get around this by the placement and style of their risers.  As fitted to this bike, they are as low as possible and can come up another 32mm if slid up to the bottom of the top triple.  So they're not a huge amount lower than the original bars.  However on this bike the originals had been replaced with some higher steel bars, so they were definitely quite a lot lower.  They're also quite wide, which is the thing that really struck me when I first sat on the bike.

But when out riding it didn't feel too unusual compared to my otherwise identical M600.

The photos show them fitted at their lowest possible setting.